Chapter 2

Hearings

2.1
This chapter lists the key topics discussed for each department and agency examined during the committee's hearings for Budget estimates 2020–21. Page numbers of the Proof Hansard for that day's hearing are indicated in brackets as a reference.1

Parliamentary departments—Monday 19 October 2020

Department of the Senate

2.2
The President of the Senate, Senator the Hon Scott Ryan, made an opening statement recognising the staff of the Department of the Senate for their work supporting the Senate and its committees.
2.3
The Clerk of the Senate, Mr Richard Pye, also made an opening statement regarding the work undertaken by the Department of the Senate to facilitate estimates hearings during the COVID-19 pandemic.
2.4
Topics discussed for the Department of the Senate included:
Renegotiation of the Memorandum of Understanding on the Execution of Search Warrants in the Premises of Members of Parliament (p. 4)
Funding allocated to the Department of the Senate by the 2020–21 Budget (pp. 4–5)
Senate committees:
Staff resourcing (p. 5)
Costs of particular inquiries (p. 7)
Videoconferencing facilities (pp. 5–7, 9)
Amendments to Senate Standing Orders 66 and 76(7) regarding notices of motion (pp. 7–8)
One-minute bells in the Senate chamber (p. 8)
External revenue (p. 10)
Consideration of parliamentary proceedings being broadcast on public television (p. 10)
Orders for the production of documents and freedom of information (FOI) processes (p. 11)
Public interest immunity and cabinet in confidence claims (pp. 11–12)

Parliamentary Budget Office

2.5
The President of the Senate, Senator the Hon Scott Ryan, made an opening statement regarding the recruitment of the Parliamentary Budget Officer.
2.6
Topics discussed for the Parliamentary Budget Office included:
Medium-term analysis of the 2020–21 Budget (p. 12)
Public debt interest calculator (p. 13)
Findings of the JobSeeker Payment: Understanding economic and policy trends affecting Commonwealth expenditure report released by the Parliamentary Budget Office on 30 September 2020 (pp. 13–15)
Request from Senator Rex Patrick for the production of a graph illustrating defence acquisition costs as a function of time (pp. 15–18)

Department of Parliamentary Services

2.7
The President of the Senate, Senator the Hon Scott Ryan, made an opening statement recognising the work of the Department of Parliamentary Services (DPS) during the COVID-19 pandemic.
2.8
The President of the Senate also updated the committee on a range of construction projects being undertaken across various parts of the Parliament House precinct—including upgrades to kitchen facilities, the Queen's Terrace café, mobile phone and Wi-Fi reception, and cybersecurity infrastructure.
2.9
Topics discussed for DPS included:
Building pass application and assessment processes for members of the press gallery (pp. 21–24)
Photography rules (p. 24)
Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee's inquiry into the operation and management of DPS:
Correspondence from the Secretary of DPS to DPS staff regarding the inquiry (p. 25)
Protection of witnesses (p. 26)
Messaging applications used by DPS staff and related record-keeping (pp. 25–28)
Leadership of the Secretary (pp. 28–29)
DPS audits conducted by the Australian National Audit Office (ANAO) (p. 29)
New communications infrastructure to improve mobile phone reception in Parliament House (pp. 29–32)
Electronic security systems upgrade contract (pp. 32–33)
Redeployment of DPS staff to Services Australia during the COVID-19 pandemic (pp. 33–34)
Capital Works plumbing maintenance (p. 34)
Culture in the Security Branch within DPS (pp. 34–35)

Prime Minister and Cabinet portfolio—Monday 19 October 2020

National Bushfire Recovery Agency

2.10
Mr Andrew Colvin APM OAM, National Coordinator of the National Bushfire Recovery Agency, made an opening statement updating the committee on the agency's work during the twelve months following the start of the 2019–20 bushfires.
2.11
Topics discussed for the National Bushfire Recovery Agency included:
National Bushfire Recovery Fund—including reimbursements to state and territory governments, funded programs, grant applications, support for the forestry sector and local economic recovery (pp. 38–51, 53)
'Charity shopping' and mitigating instances of fraud (pp. 52–53)
Regional Recovery Partnerships (p. 54)
Tender awarded to Peter Edward Dalrymple Crone (p. 55)

Office for Women (Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet)

2.12
Topics discussed for the Office for Women included:
Access to the www.crediblewomen.com website (pp. 57–58)
Gender analysis:
2020–21 Budget (pp. 58–59, 63–64)
Early access to superannuation (pp. 59–60)
JobMaker (pp. 60–61)
Stage 2 tax cuts (p. 61)
Women's Economic Security Package and associated grant packages (pp. 61–66, 68–69)
Childcare (p. 67)
Cyberbullying (pp. 67–68)

Workplace Gender Equality Agency

2.13
Ms Libby Lyons, Director of the Workplace Gender Equality Agency (WGEA), made an opening statement updating the committee on the completion of the 2019–20 dataset.
2.14
Topics discussed for WGEA included:
WGEA's contribution to the She's Price(d)less report (pp. 70–71)
Impact of COVID-19 on the gender pay gap (p. 71)
Findings of WGEA's 2019–20 compliance report (pp. 71–73)

National Drought and North Queensland Flood Response and Recovery Agency

2.15
The Hon Shane Stone AC QC, Coordinator General of the National Drought and North Queensland Flood Response and Recovery Agency (NDNQFRRA), made an opening statement updating the committee on the agency's work throughout the COVID-19 pandemic.
2.16
Mr Stone highlighted several of the NDNQFRRA's achievements—including the establishment a national network of Regional Recovery Offices, the
On-Farm Emergency Water Infrastructure Rebate Scheme, the Drought Community Outreach Program, long-term recovery strategy, engagement with the Royal Commission into National Natural Disaster Arrangements and the impact of border closures.
2.17
Topics discussed for the NDNQFRRA included:
Review of the government's drought response plan (pp. 75–76)
Staff resourcing and travel expenses (pp. 76–77)
Community engagement (pp. 77–78)
Distribution of vouchers under the Rotary grant agreement (p. 78)
Drought as a natural disaster (pp. 78–79)
Regional Recovery Offices (pp. 79–81)

Australian Public Service Commission

2.18
Topics for the Australian Public Service Commission included:
Auditor-General Report No. 9 of 2020–21, Purchase of the 'Leppington Triangle' Land for the Future Development of Western Sydney Airport (pp. 81–87)
Work arrangements for the Australian Public Service (APS) during the COVID-19 pandemic—including relevant data collection and returning to work arrangements (pp. 87–89)
SES officers engaged through labour hire arrangements across the APS (pp. 89–90)

Office of the Official Secretary to the Governor-General

2.19
Mr Paul Singer, Official Secretary to the Governor-General, made an opening statement regarding the Governor-General's engagements during the
COVID-19 pandemic. Mr Singer also updated the committee on the progress of the Kirribilli Point Battery precinct stabilisation project.
2.20
Topics discussed for the Office of the Official Secretary to the
Governor-General included:
Funding for staff resourcing allocated by the 2020–21 Budget (pp. 92–93)
Knights and Dames awards (pp. 93–94)
Resignations, cancellations and terminations of the Order of Australia (pp. 94–95)

Office of National Intelligence

2.21
Mr Nick Warner, Director-General of National Intelligence, made an opening statement regarding the National Intelligence Community and the safety of its staff during the COVID-19 pandemic.
2.22
Topics discussed for the Office of National Intelligence (ONI) included:
Mr Warner's retirement (planned for 18 December 2020) (p. 96)
Non-partisan nature of intelligence assessment and advice (pp. 96–97)
National Intelligence Community and the transition from the Office of National Assessments to the ONI (p. 97)
Staff of the ONI seconded to the secretariat of the Comprehensive review of the legal framework governing the National Intelligence Community within the Attorney-General's Department (p. 99)
Appointment of a new Director-General of National Intelligence and recruitment for two Deputy Director-General roles (pp. 100–101)
Foreign interference and espionage threats (p. 101)

Australian National Audit Office

2.23
Topics discussed for the ANAO included:
The following ANAO audit reports:
Auditor-General Report No. 9 of 2020–21, Purchase of the 'Leppington Triangle' Land for the Future Development of Western Sydney Airport and subsequent referral of the matter to the Australian Federal Police (AFP) (pp. 101–109, 111)
Auditor-General Report No. 48 of 2019–20, Management of the Australian Government’s Lobbying Code of Conduct – Follow-up Audit (pp. 110–111)
Auditor-General Report No. 2 of 2020–21, Procurement of Strategic Water Entitlements (pp. 112–114)
Auditor-General Report No. 10 of 2020–21, System Redevelopment—Managing Risks While Planning Transition (p. 115)
Auditor-General Report No. 23 of 2019–20, Award of Funding under the Community Sport Infrastructure Program (pp. 120–122)
Funding allocated to the ANAO by the 2020–21 Budget and costs of financial audits (pp. 109, 112)
Potential audits listed in the ANAO's Annual Audit Work Program for 2020–21:
Underwriting New Generation Investment (p. 110)
Use of Evidence and Data in Policy Development (p. 111)
Data analytics (pp. 14–15)
Cybersecurity frameworks (pp. 117–118)
Data migration (p. 118)
Land acquisition (pp. 118–119)
Parliamentary privilege (pp. 122–123)

Prime Minister and Cabinet portfolio—Tuesday 20 October 2020

National COVID-19 Commission Advisory Board

2.24
Topics discussed for the National COVID-19 Commission Advisory Board included:
Funding allocated to the National COVID-19 Commission Advisory Board by the 2020–21 Budget (pp. 3–4)
Commissioners:
Appointments (pp. 4–5)
Remuneration (pp. 5–6)
Security clearances (pp. 16–17)
Conflict of interest management (pp. 21–23)
Engagement with government through its budget and cabinet processes
(pp. 8–9, 18–25)
Briefings to the Prime Minister (p. 10)
Feedback from businesses regarding restrictions imposed by state governments and the 2020–21 Budget (pp. 11–13)
Advice provided to the government regarding JobSeeker, unemployment and the impact of the recession on Australian women (pp. 14–16, 24)
Briefings regarding the gas-fired recovery plan and JobMaker (p. 17)
Recovery projects (pp. 26–29)

Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet

2.25
Ms Stephanie Foster PSM, Deputy Secretary, Governance at the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPM&C), made an opening statement regarding changes to the department's executive since the committee's last estimates hearings in March 2020.
2.26
Topics discussed for the DPM&C included:
Auditor-General Report No. 9 of 2020–21, Purchase of the 'Leppington Triangle' Land for the Future Development of Western Sydney Airport and subsequent referral to the AFP (pp. 29–38, 39–42, 57–63)
Representation at the Administrative Appeals Tribunal regarding a matter referred by the Office of the Australian Information Commissioner (OAIC) relating to whether confidentiality and cabinet provisions apply to the National Cabinet (pp. 38–39, 49)
National Integrity Commission and establishing legislation (pp. 42–46)
Conduct of ministers:
Investigations into the conduct of the Hon Michael Sukkar MP and the Hon Kevin Andrews MP (pp. 47–49)
Actions of the Hon Angus Taylor MP relating to the Leppington Triangle land sale (pp. 54–55)
Allegations of criminal conduct regarding the Hon Alan Tudge MP (pp. 77–80)
Administration of the Community Sport Infrastructure Program—Gaetjens report (pp. 49–52, 115–117)
Correspondence to the Prime Minister from the Auditor-General regarding funding for the ANAO (pp. 52–54)
Funding allocated to the ANAO, Commonwealth Ombudsman and the OAIC in the 2020–21 Budget (p. 54)
Gender analysis of the 2020–21 Budget (pp. 55–56)
Membership and meeting dates of the Cabinet Office Policy Committee (p. 63)
Revisions to the Cabinet Handbook and operations of the National Cabinet (pp. 66–72, 126)
www.crediblewomen.com website (p. 72)
Briefings to the Prime Minister:
QAnon movement (pp. 73–77)
Deaths in aged-care (pp. 117–121, 124)
Childcare policies (p. 131)
Prime Minister's speech on the apology to the survivors of institutional child abuse (p. 77)
COVID-19:
Arrangements to facilitate the return of Australians stranded overseas (pp. 81–93)
Announcement of an international inquiry by Senator the Hon Marise Payne, Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade (pp. 99–101)
Advice provided to the Prime Minister regarding weapons inspectors and the World Health Organisation (pp. 101–103)
Vaccine agreements with countries in the Pacific and South-East Asia and related international aid (pp. 105–108)
Mr Tony Abbott's recent visit to Europe and the United Kingdom (UK), and his appointment to the UK Board of Trade (pp. 93–99)
Prime Minister's contact with the President of the United States (US), Donald Trump, and briefings to the Prime Minister regarding the US election held in November 2020 (p. 108)
Australia’s Foreign Relations (State and Territory Arrangements) Bill 2020 and Australia’s Foreign Relations (State and Territory Arrangements) (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2020 (pp. 109–114)
FOI requests involving the Prime Minister's Office (pp. 121–122)
Questions taken on notice by the DPM&C—including the clearance process and status of overdue answers (pp. 122–124)
Discussions in National Cabinet relating to bans on firearms and ammunition sales (pp. 124–126)
Gross and net debt levels (p. 127)
Analysis of the JobMaker, JobKeeper and JobSeeker programs (pp. 129–131)
Changes to the Morrison Government's Ministry following the resignation of Senator the Hon Mathias Cormann (pp. 132–133)
Staff resourcing and contracts for external consultants (pp. 134–137)
Cybersecurity threats (pp. 139–140)

Finance portfolio—Wednesday 21 October 2020

ASC Pty Ltd

2.27
Topics discussed for ASC Pty Ltd included:
Location of full cycle docking of Collins class submarines (pp. 5–15)
Future development of the Australian Marine Complex at Henderson (p. 16)
Contract for life-of-type extension work (p. 16)
Status and timelines:
Feasibility proposals in relation to large capability upgrades for main propulsion, motor, diesels, power conversion and distribution packages (p. 16)
Firefighting degaussing packages (pp. 16–17)
Workforce:
Life-of-type extension (pp. 17, 19)
Collins program employees in core and critical categories (p. 17)
Attrition rate (pp. 17, 19)
Overseas recruitment (p. 17)
Frigate program delays (p. 18)
Impact of COVID-19 and border restrictions in Western Australia (p. 19)
FOI request made by Senator Rex Patrick regarding the full cycle docking study undertaken by ASC Pty Ltd (p. 18)
Meetings of the Submarine Enterprise Board (p. 19)
Naval Shipbuilding College (p. 20)
Contracts (pp. 20–21)
Funding allocated by MYEFO (pp. 21–22)

Australian Naval Infrastructure

2.28
Mr Andrew Seaton, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer at Australian Naval Infrastructure, made an opening statement regarding the Osborne South and Osborne North projects.
2.29
Topics discussed for Australian Naval Infrastructure included:
Osborne North shipyard—design (pp. 23–24)
Equity injections (p. 24)
Scheduling for Phase 1, 2 and 3 works and planning (pp. 24–25)
Osborne South shipyard—handover to ASC Shipbuilding (p. 25)

Future Fund Management Agency

2.30
Dr Raphael Arndt, Chief Executive Office at the Future Fund Management Agency, made an opening statement updating the committee on the investment market during the COVID-19 pandemic.
2.31
Topics discussed for the Future Fund Management Agency included:
AusTender contract regarding the lease and rental of a property from JustCo (pp. 26–27)
Management expense ratio for assets, investment costs and valuations (pp. 27–29)
Meeting with the Board of Rio Tinto regarding the Juukan Gorge cultural heritage site (p. 29)
Investment risk analysis (pp. 30–32)
Coal exposure in Japanese, Chinese and South Korean markets (p. 33)
Fossil fuel assets (p. 33)
Performance and fund contributions (p. 33)
2019–20 annual report—operating statement, cost disclosures, consultants and advisers engaged (pp. 34–35)

Commonwealth Superannuation Corporation

2.32
Mr Damien Hill, Chief Executive Officer at Commonwealth Superannuation Corporation, made an opening statement regarding changes to the superannuation industry caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.
2.33
Topics for Commonwealth Superannuation Corporation included:
Unpaid superannuation for employees of the APS and related Federal Court case (pp. 35–38)
Interest rates (p. 38)
Organisational restructure (pp. 38–39)

Department of Finance

2.34
Topics discussed for the Department of Finance included:
Auditor-General Report No. 9 of 2020–21, Purchase of the 'Leppington Triangle' Land for the Future Development of Western Sydney Airport:
Land acquisition strategy (pp. 39–49, 52)
Valuation strategy (pp. 49, 52–55)
Review of the Land Acquisitions Act 1989 (pp. 49–52, 56)
Files and correspondence regarding Western Sydney Airport (p. 55)
2020–21 Budget:
Contingent liabilities listed in Budget Paper No. 1, Statement 9 (p. 57)
Role in the budget process (pp. 58–59)
Funding allocated to strengthen the Department of Finance's capacity to assess the efficiency and quality of government spending (pp. 59–60)
Infrastructure projects (pp. 60–65)
Grants and programs (pp. 66–74)
Funding annoucements for seats held by the Centre Alliance
(pp. 79–82)
Agreements between the Coalition government and other parties (pp. 82–85)
Fiscal strategy and net debt (pp. 89–97)
Infrastructure stimulus measure (pp. 97–101)
Gender analysis (p. 102)
Areas of focus prescribed by the corporate plan (p. 59)
Commercial financing and procurement models (p. 60)
Australia's sovereign construction capacity (p. 63)
Free trade obligations and the Commonwealth Procurement Rules (p. 65)
Reporting obligations for government business enterprises (pp. 75–79)
Management of conflicts of interest in outsourcing procedures (pp. 85–87)
Handover from Senator the Hon Mathias Cormann to Senator the Hon Simon Birmingham as Minister for Finance (pp. 87–88)
Policy capacity (p. 102)
Career Starter Program and Graduate Program (pp. 103–105)

Finance portfolio—Thursday 22 October 2020

Department of Finance

2.35
Topics discussed for the Department of Finance included:
Procurement policy guidelines (updated in August 2020) (pp. 4–12)
2020–21 Budget:
APS additional resources (pp. 12–18)
Extension of COVID-19 stimulus measures (pp. 18–21)
JobSeeker payment increase and unemployment forecasts (p. 21)
National Disability Insurance Scheme payments (p. 22)
Childcare subsidy payment increase (p. 22)
Fair Entitlements Guarantee program entitlements (p. 22)
Military rehabilitation compensation (p. 22)
Income support for seniors (p. 22)
Instance of non-compliance with finance law recorded in the Department of Finance's 2019–20 annual report regarding employees charged with fraud (pp. 23, 64–67)
Procurement assurance contracts (p. 25)
Contractors and consultants engaged across the APS (pp. 25–34)
SES officers engaged through labour hire across the APS (pp. 34–35)
Use of limited tenders (pp. 35–37)
Operations of the Service Delivery Office (pp. 37–39)
Approval process for the purchase of land under the Lands Acquisition Act 1989 (pp. 39–41)
Investigations into the conduct of the Hon Michael Sukkar MP and the Hon Kevin Andrews MP (pp. 42–63)
User testing for the Parliamentary Expenses Management System
(pp. 67–68)
Government advertising and campaigns during the COVID-19 pandemic (pp. 71–82, 90)
Act of grace payments (pp. 83–85)
Housing debt and rent relief (pp. 85, 91)
Property strategy and leases for Commonwealth entities (pp. 85–89)
Operation Tetris (pp. 89–91)

Independent Parliamentary Expenses Authority

2.36
Topics discussed for the Independent Parliamentary Expenses Authority included:
Investigations into the conduct of the Hon Michael Sukkar MP and the Hon Kevin Andrews MP (pp. 68–70)
'Parliamentary business' as defined by the Parliamentary Business Resources Act 2017 (pp. 70–71)

Australian Electoral Commission

2.37
Topics discussed for the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) included:
Integrity of the Commonwealth electoral roll (pp. 92–93)
Preparation for the next federal election and budgeting for election costs (pp. 93–96)
Eden-Monaro by-election—emails regarding the Australian Labor Party candidate and subsequent AFP investigation (pp. 97–100)
'Stop and Consider' campaign (pp. 99–100)
Regulation of political parties and political donations (pp. 100–101)
Correspondence between the AEC and GetUp (pp. 101–102)
Political donations made by Climate 200 Pty Ltd and Climate Outcome Foundation Pty Ltd (pp. 102–104)
Voter ID and multiple voting (pp. 104–106)
Redistribution of seats in the House of Representatives (pp. 106–107)
Community submissions (p. 107)
Funding allocated to the AEC by the 2020–21 Budget for ICT modernisation (pp. 108–111)
Transparency Register (pp. 111–113)
Correspondence between the AEC and the ANAO regarding
Auditor-General Report No. 48 of 2019–20, Management of the Australian Government’s Lobbying Code of Conduct – Follow-up Audit (pp. 113–114, 120–122)
Groom by-election—contracts (pp. 114–116)
Public relations services and advertising expenses (pp. 116–117)
Mediator tender (p. 117)
Northern Territory—allocation of seats in the House of Representatives (pp. 118–119)
Intangible assets (p. 119)
Deregistration of political parties (p. 119)

Cross-portfolio on Indigenous Matters—Friday 23 October 2020

Aboriginal Hostels Limited

2.38
Mr Dave Chalmers AO, Chief Executive Officer at Aboriginal Hostels Limited, made an opening statement regarding the annual report and changes to the executive team.
2.39
Topics discussed for Aboriginal Hostels Limited included:
Appointment of Mr Chalmers as Chief Executive Officer in March 2020 (pp. 4–5)
Indigenous employment and increasing Indigenous participation at the senior executive level (pp. 5, 8)
Annual report (p. 5)
Operations during the COVID-19 pandemic and occupancy rates (pp. 5–8)
Secondary education hostels (p. 8)

Indigenous Business Australia

2.40
Mr Rajiv Viswanathan, Chief Executive Officer at Indigenous Business Australia, made an opening statement regarding support provided to staff and customers during the COVID-19 pandemic. Mr Viswanathan also discussed growth across the Indigenous business sector, investments and the Indigenous Home Ownership Program.
2.41
Topics discussed for Indigenous Business Australia included:
Indigenous Home Ownership Program (pp. 10–15)
Home Builder grants (pp. 15–16)
Funding for Indigenous businesses during the COVID-19 pandemic (p. 15)
Increasing Indigenous participation at the senior executive level (p. 16)
Support for individual home loan customers and business customers during the COVID-19 pandemic (p. 16)

Office of the Registrar of Indigenous Corporations

2.42
Mr Selwyn Button, Registrar of Indigenous Corporations, made an opening statement regarding the Indigenous corporations sector.
2.43
Topics discussed for the Office of the Registrar of Indigenous Corporations included:
Review of the Corporations (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander) Act 2006 (pp. 17–19, 21)
Indigenous corporations—number, criteria, activity and deregistration (pp. 19–20)
Probity checks (pp. 20–21)
Staff resourcing (pp. 21–22)
Communication with other entities (p. 22)

National Indigenous Australians Agency

2.44
Mr Ray Griggs AO CSC, Chief Executive Officer at the National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA) made an opening statement regarding the agency's operations during the COVID-19 pandemic, the new National Agreement on Closing the Gap, the development of options for an Indigenous voice, the Aboriginal flag and the Commonwealth Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Workforce Strategy.
2.45
Topics for the NIAA included:
Indigenous voice process—consultations and interim report (pp. 24–27, 37, 40)
Closing the Gap implementation and funding (pp. 25–27, 34–35)
Indigenous Advancement Strategy and associated grants (pp. 28–30, 37–38)
Deaths in custody (pp. 30–31, 35–36)
Suspension of the Community Development Program due to the COVID-19 pandemic (pp. 32–34)
Juukan Gorge cultural heritage site (pp. 35–36)
Australian Law Reform Commission, Pathways to Justice report (pp. 36–37)
Organisational restructure and staff resourcing (pp. 38–40)

Cross-portfolio: Health

2.46
Officials from the Department of Health joined officials from the NIAA to discuss Indigenous health issues. Topics discussed included:
Funding allocated by the 2020–21 Budget to support the mental health of Indigenous Australians (pp. 41–42)
Findings of the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody including healthcare in prisons and detention centres (pp. 42–43)
National Suicide Prevention Trial (pp. 43–46)
Mental Health Commission's blueprint for mental health and suicide (pp. 46–47)
Response to the COVID-19 pandemic (pp. 47–48).
Senator James Paterson
Chair

  • 1
    Page numbers may vary between the Proof and Official Hansard transcripts when published.

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